6-OXO

There is a full article on www.1fast400.com on OXO, just click on the OXO bottle. They will be in thursday. There are quite a few people lined up to take the product. There will be a LOT of initial feedback. This is something unique to most products. I have quite a few local people who have extended their cycle to the release date of this product. Run through the article real fast and then see if you have any more questions.

Posted by: @rich7522

Is 3,6,17-androstenetrione ok to take post cyle. I am wondering because I have been told that 5alpha-androstanedione is supressive and not the best thing to take post cycle (or too long post cycle). Are there any concerns with Ergopharm's 6-Oxo along those line? Or is it one of the better OTC post cycle supps?

I am trying to plan a 8 week ONE/Super ONE+ cycle (I wil be contacting you soon 1fast!!) but am concerned with post cycle, based on the help I had here, so far these are the post cycle supplements I have or planned to use ZMA, Estrodex (SAN), Vyo-DIM, vitex, tribestan and calcium d-glucarate. All these supps would be started the last week of the on cycle and the Estordex will last about one week post cycle, then I planned on stopping because it has 5-AA. I am considering adding 6-Oxo, but if it will be supressive like 5-AA, I probably won't bother. If 6-OXO is what it is supposed to be and not supressive, I will probably drop the vitex and tribestan.

*as an aside, I cannot risk getting any scrip stuff unless I have a come to Jesus with my doc....which I would like to avoid at this point

The whole IDEA of 6-oxo is that it is an anti-estrogen that demonstrates no suppressive androgenic activity (either intrinsically or through conversion to metabolites)

This makes it perfect for post cycle recovery - unlike 5-AA or even formestane (formastat, formasin)

Thanks for the quick repsone guys. It looks like I will drop the Vitex and Trib and get the 6-OXO. I just wanted to make sure because I never heard about the suppresive nature of 5-AA until recently.

Posted by: @chemicalpa

Posted by: @rich7522

Is 3,6,17-androstenetrione ok to take post cyle. I am wondering because I have been told that 5alpha-androstanedione is supressive and not the best thing to take post cycle (or too long post cycle). Are there any concerns with Ergopharm's 6-Oxo along those line? Or is it one of the better OTC post cycle supps?

I am trying to plan a 8 week ONE/Super ONE+ cycle (I wil be contacting you soon 1fast!!) but am concerned with post cycle, based on the help I had here, so far these are the post cycle supplements I have or planned to use ZMA, Estrodex (SAN), Vyo-DIM, vitex, tribestan and calcium d-glucarate. All these supps would be started the last week of the on cycle and the Estordex will last about one week post cycle, then I planned on stopping because it has 5-AA. I am considering adding 6-Oxo, but if it will be supressive like 5-AA, I probably won't bother. If 6-OXO is what it is supposed to be and not supressive, I will probably drop the vitex and tribestan.

*as an aside, I cannot risk getting any scrip stuff unless I have a come to Jesus with my doc....which I would like to avoid at this point

The whole IDEA of 6-oxo is that it is an anti-estrogen that demonstrates no suppressive androgenic activity (either intrinsically or through conversion to metabolites)

This makes it perfect for post cycle recovery - unlike 5-AA or even formestane (formastat, formasin)

Pat, is 5AA intrinsically androgenic or are its metabolites androgenic, or both?

this doesn't answer your question, but while we are on the topic of 6-oxo... itsn't it a suicide aromatase inhibitor just like aromasin? What is the difference between suicider's and plain old aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex and femara? If they permanately bind to the aromatase enzyme, does the body then clear the unusable aromatase and then somehow start producing more or will the levels of aromatase be permanetly suppressed (not likely)? I know that arimidex and femara have half lives so my guess is that they temporarily bind to aromatase and then cease after a time period.... is this correct?

I'm basically asking how the body responds specifically to both suicide inhibitors and normal inhibitors in regards to aromatase.. how is it produced, etc...?

1)5AA converts to DHT, so it will be suppressive to the HPTA (as it is highly Androgenic; as with 4AD, I don't know if the intrinsic effects are known).

2)Aromatase inhibitors such as Arimidex and Femara competitively bind to the aromatase enzyme (which is temporary); suicide inhibitors deactivate the enzyme itself, with permanence.

I am not Pat, so dare I not venture much further (however, perhaps I can *assume* that with a suicide inhibitor, that an increased production of Aromatase enzymes and/or Estrogen receptor up-regulation would be far more drastic than a substance that simply fought for binding).

that would be my presumption as well... suicide inhibitors just don't seem like the best choice... I'm still curious as to how exactly our body produces aromatase and what it does in response to suicide inhibitors specifically.

In regards to the best AA, IMO femara is the absolute best, it INCREASES igf-1 levels (while arimidex lowers them), competitively binds to aromatase just like arimidex (slightly stronger I think, and is not a suicide inhibitor) and is almost as cheap.

i was planning on using 6-oxo at the end of an upcoming cycle. i am very curious to hear more about suicide inhibition vis-a-vis possible increased aromatase activity/estrogen receptor upregulation.

maybe pat will weigh in again?

The body constantly tries to remain homeostatic, so if estrogen is not binding to the receptor, for whatever reason, something is going to upregulate regardless to try and compensate.

With 6-oxo, it is likely to be mRNA for aromatase, with a non-suicide inhibitor (i.e. something that just blocks it from interacting with the androgen), it is likely to be aromatase itself, and with Nolvadex, it is likely to estrogen itself.

Thus, the potential for rebound will be there, so tapering might not be the worst idea.

What kind of length and graduation would you recommend for a taper?

I have been on nolva for 6 months now; the last two I have been using 10mg/per day with boldione. Before that it was 20mg/day.

I was going to go back up to 20mg post cycle (starting tomorrow) for a month and then do 10mg/day for two weeks. Would this be sufficient?

dio why are you on it for six months? do you take it to keep estorgen low so it is easier to cut up or something?

Do you think that the rebound could have been the possible reason for PA's "temporary" gyno reduction?

Posted by: @dio

What kind of length and graduation would you recommend for a taper?

With consideration to the fact that you have been upon this for 6 months, you may wish to perhaps use 20 mgs of one-month, followed by 10 mgs for one-month more.

It seems that there is no win-win situation when it comes to estrogen control... no matter what method is used, be it suicide inhibitors, regular aromatase inhibitors, or site blockers.... there is a downside when you come off... I'm wondering which method has the shortest and/or less noticable negative effects (such as when the up regulation of the ER from nolva use compared to the up regluation of aromatase enzymes which have been temporarily binded to arimidex or femara for example....) What is the safest and most effective tool to use that has the least about of complications when you stop using.

The idea of suicide inhibitors causing the upregulation of mRNA as Par mentioned (btw, thanks for the reply) seems like it might be the least problematic of the bunch... I don't know though.